September 1999
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Seminars

September 1999: Dave Turton & Roy Shaw

THE ULTIMATE IN REALITY

Report by Alan Charlton Self Protection Association

What a title for a report on a seminar, big headed over the top, no true. The interest in the martial arts for the things that work on a street level have been talked and written about a lot over the last few years. Some have been shouting the truth about what is happening in the real world of street combat for years, but only to have the truth fall on many deaf ears. But the times are a changing, and as someone whose outlook is towards the practical I'm pleased to see the ideas of what work come full cycle. And it's nice to think that we can all enjoy the fighting arts, with all their colourful and varied benefits and not lose track of what most people start their first class for, to feel safer on the street. So when the Self Protection Association held it's open seminar this year we could not have had two better guests to give us an insight into what works, and what is fun but fantasy.

Sunday 5th September 1999

This will be one day that I will never forget, and I'm sure all the people who came to the seminar will feel the same way. The SPA have held some great seminars over the years and this year with the help and support of my good friend Darrin Richardson made it possible to hold two this year. In June we had Mr Mat Clempner who gave us an insight into combat Sambo. For the September seminar we were lucky to have Mr Dave Turton head of the Goshinkwai Combat System and we were privileged to have as a guest speaker Mr Roy Shaw.

Pretty Boy

Roy Shaw is without doubt, a man who has been and seen the hard side of real confrontations, in his book "Pretty Boy" you are gripped from the first to the last page with the reality of violence. Roy Shaw's background of hard-hitting violence has been with him all of his life, 15 years of which was spent in prison. With his love of boxing and hard training only coming second to his will to win, his name was made within the licensed and unlicensed boxing ring. Roy's fights with the late Lenny McLean have become legendary, whether you are for or against this type of fighting you have to respect the level of courage this type of encounter demands. Most of us will never encounter the level of violence that Roy had to deal with sometimes on a day to day basis, and we should thank our lucky stars for that. What meeting and talking with Roy I hoped would give everyone, would be an insight into what it is really like on the hard side, and how to cope with the fear of violence. The seminar was booked to start a 12 0'clock many of the people had come in plenty of time. Giving us all time to meet up and talk with old and new friends alike. The atmosphere was buzzing long before the 12'oclock start; inside I knew this was going to be something very special. As I walked around the car park saying hi to everyone and telling everybody we cannot get into the hall until 12 o'clock and hope they enjoy the day. I stopped and looked around and thought to myself this is a who's who of the martial arts. Some of the top names I and many have read about over the years are here standing in a north London car park waiting for the start of the seminar. Could it be at last people have seen though me? No longer the fat jolly Instructor who can throw a good right hook, but a man with the all round fighting ability of Mr Rick Young, the back ground and knowledge of Mr Geoff Thompson and now having the body of a Greek God. But as the highly polished red Bentley drove into the car park and all heads turned, my daydream was gone, as my ears picked up the whispers of its Roy Shaw. I went over and introduced myself to Roy Shaw. With a warm handshake and a big thank you for taking the time out to come and be with us today, I introduced Roy to Dave Turton and Graham Noble. Graham had waited many years to meet Roy Shaw and had travelled all the way from Sunderland not to miss this opportunity. Roy Shaw had agreed to give Graham an interview about his book and fights inside and outside the ring, lookout for it, I'm sure it will be an eye opener.

Hell's Coming With Me

Within no time we were all inside the hall, the atmosphere was great everyone was looking forward to the seminar, and knowing my two guests were here my nerves eased off. I called everyone onto the training area, before I introduced Roy Shaw I thanked everyone for coming. I pointed out not only do we have two great names taking the seminar today. But also we have some top Instructors here today who also did not want to miss this seminar. Jamie O'Keefe, Kevin O'Hagan, Darrin Richardson, Justin Gray, Leslie Crumplin-Hill and Mickey Neale.

"This seminar is all about the reality of violence our first guest has clashed with violence more than anyone in this hall, this is your chance to hear the truth, please welcome Mr Roy Shaw". To a warm welcoming round of applause Roy introduced himself and explained, "This is the first time I've done this type of thing"!

You are never sure what to expect when you meet someone for the first time, and like most of the people who had come to the seminar Roy's reputation as a fighter feeds you many preconceived ideas. So all the questions you have always wanted to ask someone like Roy seem to disappear when he is standing in front of you. But soon the questions people wanted to ask came back to them, helped by Roy's enthusiasm and easy going manner. At one point I found myself thinking about the cover of Roy's book, where he says "If I come after you, Beware 'Cos. Hell's coming with me". It felt odd trying to put the two things together in my head, the man in front of us laughing and joking and his reputation as a fighter. You can't put your finger on it, but every part of your being is telling you that this is not a man to mess with.

Roy was very open to questions and gave a detailed reply to all, if he described any physical actions to a fight, his body would move with pinpoint accuracy. From demonstrating a punch to the jaw, you could see Roy punching with every part of his body, making every ounce of his bodyweight hit the target. I think Roy's speed and agility impressed everyone, but when Roy told us he was 63 years old, everyone's jaw hit the floor.

THE FEAR OF WHEN TO FIGHT

One question most people wanted to know the answer to was when do you fight and what is the point at which you are committed. Now every one of us has limits and if we are honest, we know most times we will bottle out, as fear of the confrontation becomes a reality? Roy described the feeling of adrenaline that builds up inside him, to make it work you go with the feeling. "As soon as I feel the adrenaline build up I would go with it, then, WHACK! Roy said. Most people feel adrenaline and feel weak, Roy found that adrenaline made him powerful and without fear, so our perception of what we all feel relates to how we handle it. A stand up fight was never a problem; Roy had found his answer to that question. Someone asked what was your scariest encounter? "Not a fight. It was when I was in Broadmoor hospital; I was restrained by 3 male nurses. I could not move. A doctor put a syringe under my cheekbone; I felt the needle pushing through the gristle and behind my eye and into my brain. That was terrifying" Roy said.

Handkerchief

Roy told us that he used to use a handkerchief to protect his hands in a fight. "I would put a handkerchief in the palm of my hand so when I made a fist it would be tight and kept the hand strong for the punch". Question, Roy did you set the person up for the punch? "Yes, if you are boxing in the ring you are both throwing punches, in the street you have to line the person up and hit first, I would move in close and set them up for the punch". Again in detail Roy demonstrated the idea, moving in and lining up the punch. Everyone could see that Roy had this off to a fine art, Roy may not wear a karate suit and black belt. But his mastery of his technique and the proof of its effectiveness puts many so called self defence Instructors to shame, teaching what they think works. Roy talked about training for a fight, with press-ups, squats and sit-ups numbering in the hundreds with bag work, running and weight training turned Roy into a very power full fighting machine. Also along with this hard training Roy found it was a release for any pent-up aggression.

When I first asked Roy to take part in the seminar, I asked him if he would talk for about 15min, it ended up nearly being an hour. I did not want to push my luck with the time as I still wanted to get a group photo. I think Roy was genuinely surprised and taken back by the warmth of everyone's applause at the end of his talk. He did not rush off, but stayed to sign copies of his book and have photos taken with everyone. I'm sure everyone at the seminar got something from meeting him, for me I will never forget it. He was a gentleman, without ego and one of the old school.

Mr Knowledge

The guest Instructor for the rest of the session was Mr Dave Turton. Dave's knowledge of the fighting arts is second to none; in fact I cannot do justice to the quality of Instruction and information he passed on in one seminar within the limits of one report. Just some of the martial artists Dave has taught and impressed over the years Geoff Thompson, Peter Consterdine, Phil Glover, Dave Briggs, Jamie O'Keefe, Darrin Richardson and just about anyone who has been lucky enough to meet or train with him.

With everyone still buzzing from the first part of the seminar a lot of Instructors may have found it a hard act to follow. Dave could not have got everyone's attention quicker if he had fired 2 rounds from a 12bore shotgun into the ceiling. Making no excuses for what he was about to cover. "If anyone is offended by any of my ideas, tough! We are hear to work through what will save you in a real situation, and not deal with techniques that are unworkable or situations that only exist in the world of comic books," Dave said.

Pain and Verbal

Dave's ability to convey information about any point he was covering, be it technical detail of a technique or the way a situation can develop into violence was so honest, I'm sure many martial arts Instructors ears were burning throughout the country. Fighting is basic; from the caveman to the modern day soldier the idea is to stop your attacker as quickly as possible. For the caveman it was to survive the attack of a wild animal or kill something for his next meal, the soldier because he is in a war zone and what he needs is something that works, if it doesn't he would be dead.

Dave took us through some hands on fighting ideas; some may say basic I would say workable under pressure, and very painful. "If someone talks about more than 3 moves to get control of a situation then they are talking b******s, and has never been there. Under pressure of a real situation your physical and mental response must be simple." Dave explained. Like any seminar you have people of mixed ability as well as different sizes and shapes, not only were the ideas effective they were working for everyone. Dave was very keen to pass on the aggression factor, ideas that work for you is one thing but you have to get used to exploding into your technique. Working the drills again but this time adding verbal aggression, it was great to see and hear everyone putting every ounce of effort into the drills. The atmosphere in the hall was electric. In fact with the volume at which everyone was getting into his or her part, I felt sure Enfield Borough council would be sending me a bill for refitting the roof of the gymnasium?

Biblical Turton

I Hope Dave will not mind me saying that he is not a big man in stature, but like all good fighters this means nothing. So when Dave called out "Mr Charlton can I have your assistance please." I was on my guard, but little did I know we were about to re-enact a passage from the bible. Dave explained that it does not take a lot to render a person helpless. This did not make me nervous as I knew Dave was a very experienced martial artist, what did make me nervous was the sight of my good friend Darrin Richardson grinning like a Cheshire cat, and the look of someone who knows what's coming next! "Tick neuralgia, what is it? Dave asked. "An intense intermittent pain along the course of a nerve in the face", Called out my ex-friend Darrin Richardson. "Yes", Dave said "Now if I slap Alan across the face like this, crack! All Alan feels is a stinging on the side of the face, now if I cup my hand and line the attack to the side of the face and with just a little more pressure we get this reaction, BANG!

I like to think I remember most of the things that happened on the seminar, I'm sure I heard Dave say we get this reaction, then someone turned the lights out. Like many of you reading this who trained in contact we have all been punched and felt the room go round. But what Dave hit me with, was so intense I did not feel the room go round just intense pain and completely helpless. It was great to see the reaction of everyone at the seminar to the fact that Dave had taken me out with about as much effort as someone puts into making a cup of tea. Dave said, "Feeling is believing so get a partner and try it out". So we all got a partner and re-enacted David and Goliath, I tried to find Mr Richardson but the only sign of him was the fire exit door swinging like something from an old western movie.

Pads and strikes

Like me I'm sure many of you reading this train with focus pads they are a great way to practice your strikes as well as putting you under pressure. If you are lucky enough to have seen Kevin O'Hagan video Training and conditioning for combat, it gives a great insight into just how versatile pad training can be.

Using one of his students Dave demonstrated how to work the pads not with but on your partner. "Too many of us train the pads in the air, yes great fun to hit, but because the pad is free in the air, we don't get the restrictions we find in a real confrontation". Moving his partner's arms apart then throwing some punches at the pads Dave said, "What am I doing? Hitting something out here when the thing I should be hitting, him, a person is not a free pad; his body arms and other bits get in the way. If I don't train my strikes to hit their target when its restricted or when he's moved after the my first blow, its like teaching a fireman to throw water to the left and right and never at the fire"! Then working with 2 partners one holding the pads and placing them at points around the other partners body. Now Dave demonstrated hitting the pads and as the partner reacted to the punch Dave could see what would be the next target. This drill was a real eye opener, I think everyone found it a practical idea and as for the SPA students we will be making it part of our training from now on.

A Big Thank You

I was very sorry to have to bring this seminar to a close, so when I told Dave it was time to finish like me he could not believe the time had gone so fast. I'm sure everyone will remember the day for a long time and judging by the overwhelming round of applause everyone burst into when I thanked everyone for coming, it will be a very long time. But for me it was not over! "Mr Charlton would you come here please", Dave asked. Oh no, not more tick neuralgia, I thought. Then my good friend and training partner Mr Glenn Clark came forward and said, "Alan knowing the type of person you are, I know you would not except this from myself or any of the other Instructors within the SPA but from Dave Turton we hope you will."

With that Dave presented me with my 4th Dan, it hit me harder than Dave's palm strike. What made it so special was that all the people I have looked up to for so long thought I deserved the rank of 4th Dan. I will do my best to live up to it. A GREAT DAY


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